Reality has become a Babylon Bee article. Yes the local Dallas rag invested in a story about how TollTags are T'RACIST!

I HATE the NTTA - it is as corrupt as it gets ... but the RACE CARD is silly.

Harrison Bergeron said:

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Reality has become a Babylon Bee article. Yes the local Dallas rag invested in a story about how TollTags are T'RACIST!

I HATE the NTTA - it is as corrupt as it gets ... but the RACE CARD is silly.

---

NTTA corrupt? That is not their reputation in the Tolling world. They have extremely good transparency policies. You can find out the info pretty easy on-line.

What do you find corrupt?

Realitybites said:

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FLBear5 said:

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What do you find corrupt?

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90+ billion for Ukraine and Americans are paying tolls for driving on roads supposedly funded by our gas taxes. There shouldn't be a single toll road in the United States, and if .gov can't make the math work for one of its basic functions, quit sending money to Ukraine, Israel, and labs in Wuhan until it does work.

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That is where you are wrong. Toll roads are not tax funded, they are user fee funded. The money is bonded on Wall St and they have bond covenants they have to meet. Toll Authorities don't get tax dollars. Everyone by law pays taxes, it is part of the financing. Toll roads are built so that tax dollars can be used on other roads. You can't just build a toll road anywhere, it has to have revenue potential

I know they are user fee funded. They are user fee funded so that inadequate funding by .gov to build necessary roads gets covered up.

User fees on toll roads are one of the few funding mechanisms that take long term road maintenance, repair, and replacement into account.
Tax dollars pay for a great highway, and then have to pay for maintenance on all roads in existence. This is why toll roads are some of the best maintained in the country.

Harrison Bergeron said:

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Reality has become a Babylon Bee article. Yes the local Dallas rag invested in a story about how TollTags are T'RACIST!

I HATE the NTTA - it is as corrupt as it gets ... but the RACE CARD is silly.

---

i dont mind toll roads except for ones like the 114/121 toll road where they change the dang price all day long!

Tolls are supposed to repay the road builder and allow them to maintain it. The tolls should be set. I have driven through that area when the toll was $1.67 and the same section of road was $22.00 at another time during the day.

FLBear5630 said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Reality has become a Babylon Bee article. Yes the local Dallas rag invested in a story about how TollTags are T'RACIST!

I HATE the NTTA - it is as corrupt as it gets ... but the RACE CARD is silly.

---

NTTA corrupt? That is not their reputation in the Tolling world. They have extremely good transparency policies. You can find out the info pretty easy on-line.

What do you find corrupt?

---

Here is my general disgust with the NTTA:

1. Building Roads for Rich Guys - the reason the Dallas North Texas Tollway suddenly winds north of LBJ is because the road corridor was chose to maximize the real estate holdings of the Hunt Family.

2. It has been a while, but there was a controversy years ago (2000s) about the NTTA doing superfluous projects to line the pockets of its inner circle group of contractors.

3. Most importantly, it has immorally changed the funding mechanism behind toll roads ... as noted:
- Taxes are used to fund people good realize not every person taxed may directly benefit but the overall society will; we build roads by taxing the entire population under the idea that every benefits from commerce, vacation, commuting, etc.
- As noted, Tolls are "usage fees" specifically designed to build a road otherwise not covered by tax dollars by charging users of that road a fee for directly using it; the NTTA has completely *******ized this:
1. The original theory was that only users of the road would be tolled to pay for the construction and maintenance of that road. This was the theory used to build the Dallas North Tollway the and the Dallas-Fort Worth Turnpike - you drive on road, you pay fee
2. The NTTA first *******ized this by changing the methodology to contiguous roads - the the tolls paid by drivers on the Dallas North Tollway could be used to pay for the construction and maintenance of the George Bush in Rowlett or Sam Rayburn in Coppell.
3. Then it went further to *******ize by amortizing tolls across the entire system. This means drivers on the George Bush in Richardson pay for the construction and maintenance of new toll roads in unincorporated Johnson County.

The economic theory of a toll road is that there is enough forecasted demand to set tolls an a reasonable rate that can lead to enough forecasted revenue that enables bonds to be issued for construction and maintenance.
- As a user fees, only users should be charged a fee
- If a road does not have enough traffic to self-sustain, it does not warrant construction

The NTTA has become politicized by its board and contractors to build unwarranted roads. This means every driver of the NTTA system pays an inflated cost to cover the construction a and maintenance of unwarranted roads. Effectively, the NTTA turned tolls into a tax, but a tax just on the drivers of the system.

So yes, it is corrupt.

GrowlTowel said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Realitybites said:

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FLBear5 said:

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What do you find corrupt?

---

90+ billion for Ukraine and Americans are paying tolls for driving on roads supposedly funded by our gas taxes. There shouldn't be a single toll road in the United States, and if .gov can't make the math work for one of its basic functions, quit sending money to Ukraine, Israel, and labs in Wuhan until it does work.

---

That is where you are wrong. Toll roads are not tax funded, they are user fee funded. The money is bonded on Wall St and they have bond covenants they have to meet. Toll Authorities don't get tax dollars. Everyone by law pays taxes, it is part of the financing. Toll roads are built so that tax dollars can be used on other roads. You can't just build a toll road anywhere, it has to have revenue potential

---

I pay $20 a day to get to and from work in "user fees" - also known as taxes. Property taxes? Heck no! Just user fees. Sales tax? Heck no! Just user fees.

Ever wonder what happens to the "tolls" when the bonds are paid up? They somehow magically remain.

---

You think a road just magically exists after the Capital outlay is paid off? It never needs maintenance? Never needs resurfacing?

Toll roads are never the only option, there is always a free option. Don't use it.

Toll roads can only be built where there are enough trips to ensure the revenue to pay them off. You can't just build toll roads. They are an option where you can do it.

If the $20 a day is too much, I would find another route. Your Gas Tax doesn't generate nearly enough to build enough roads to get everyone where they want to go with no traffic. Now that they are moving to Electric, be prepared for what is coming. Say hello to RUC... Road Usage Charges paid by County based on estimates of vehicle miles travelled. Give me the road user fees where I get to choose and the roads are maintained better and you have some time certainty

Jack Bauer said:

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Just wait until new cars are equipped with mileage trackers to tax you on how much you drive....the government always needs new revenue and this seems like the next step

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RUC is coming. Look it up.

FLBear5630 said:

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Jack Bauer said:

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Just wait until new cars are equipped with mileage trackers to tax you on how much you drive....the government always needs new revenue and this seems like the next step

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RUC is coming. Look it up.

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So would these be taxes or user fees?

My favorite in these types of media stories about "how racism is everything" was this one about trees from NPR

https://www.npr.org/2020/01/14/795961381/racist-housing-practices-from-the-1930s-linked-to-hotter-neighborhoods-today

GrowlTowel said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Jack Bauer said:

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Just wait until new cars are equipped with mileage trackers to tax you on how much you drive....the government always needs new revenue and this seems like the next step

---

RUC is coming. Look it up.

---

So would these be taxes or user fees?

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I would view these as taxes. They are taking the place of the Gas Tax, collected through the County like Property tax and everyone will get a charge based on vehicle miles travelled on all roads. That sounds like a tax to me. It is not tied to a corridor financing and there are no options. I am against RUC. Oregon has a pilot now, so does Wash St if IIRC.

EatMoreSalmon said:

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User fees on toll roads are one of the few funding mechanisms that take long term road maintenance, repair, and replacement into account.
Tax dollars pay for a great highway, and then have to pay for maintenance on all roads in existence. This is why toll roads are some of the best maintained in the country.

---

Yeah, but there are limited places we can build them. An investment grade Traffic and Revenue report is needed, which is why the overwhelming majority of toll roads so well. There are always a pig or two, but usually it involves not believing the data and pushing for what they think they know better.

To put in perspective, maintenance ratings for an interstate are 85 of 100. Our toll road scores 94ish consistently. Most toll roads will score over 90. Nothing pushes performance like investor financing... You guys should love toll Authorities, we run Govt as close to a business as possible.

FLBear5630 said:

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EatMoreSalmon said:

---

User fees on toll roads are one of the few funding mechanisms that take long term road maintenance, repair, and replacement into account.
Tax dollars pay for a great highway, and then have to pay for maintenance on all roads in existence. This is why toll roads are some of the best maintained in the country.

---

Yeah, but there are limited places we can build them. An investment grade Traffic and Revenue report is needed, which is why the overwhelming majority of toll roads so well. There are always a pig or two, but usually it involves not believing the data and pushing for what they think they know better.

To put in perspective, maintenance ratings for an interstate are 85 of 100. Our toll road scores 94ish consistently. Most toll roads will score over 90. Nothing pushes performance like investor financing... You guys should love toll Authorities, we run Govt as close to a business as possible.

---

Definitely want of the stupidest posts on this thread. Surely you're not so stupid to not understand you have effectively unlimited taxing power as a toll authority. You have all the advantages of government without the usual public checks on your ability to tax. The toll authorities are so obscure and distance form the public it is virtually impossible for the public to impact. You take governmental bureaucracy delusion to the next level.

The only reason you score more than 90 is because you have unlimited taxing authority and can lavish largesse favorited contractors to build "luxury roads" neither asked for or assented to by the public. Take the Dallas North Tollway - has probably better snow and ice equipment than Chicago ... sitting there, used once every 10 years.

BTW - noticed your odd silence on my objections to the NTTA.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

User fees on toll roads are one of the few funding mechanisms that take long term road maintenance, repair, and replacement into account.
Tax dollars pay for a great highway, and then have to pay for maintenance on all roads in existence. This is why toll roads are some of the best maintained in the country.

---

Yeah, but there are limited places we can build them. An investment grade Traffic and Revenue report is needed, which is why the overwhelming majority of toll roads so well. There are always a pig or two, but usually it involves not believing the data and pushing for what they think they know better.

To put in perspective, maintenance ratings for an interstate are 85 of 100. Our toll road scores 94ish consistently. Most toll roads will score over 90. Nothing pushes performance like investor financing... You guys should love toll Authorities, we run Govt as close to a business as possible.

---

Definitely want of the stupidest posts on this thread. Surely you're not so stupid to not understand you have effectively unlimited taxing power as a toll authority. You have all the advantages of government without the usual public checks on your ability to tax. The toll authorities are so obscure and distance form the public it is virtually impossible for the public to impact. You take governmental bureaucracy delusion to the next level.

The only reason you score more than 90 is because you have unlimited taxing authority and can lavish largesse favorited contractors to build "luxury roads" neither asked for or assented to by the public. Take the Dallas North Tollway - has probably better snow and ice equipment than Chicago ... sitting there, used once every 10 years.

BTW - noticed your odd silence on my objections to the NTTA.

---

Toll road authorities are still the closest thing to private enterprise in public works. If too few drivers wanted to use the Dallas North Tollway and decided that Central Expressway or Stemmons was better, there would be a financial hit to investors and not the public. The road would default to the state or be demolished and land sold. They are a great way to avoid bridges to nowhere.

Realitybites said:

---

FLBear5 said:

---

What do you find corrupt?

---

90+ billion for Ukraine and Americans are paying tolls for driving on roads supposedly funded by our gas taxes. There shouldn't be a single toll road in the United States, and if .gov can't make the math work for one of its basic functions, quit sending money to Ukraine, Israel, and labs in Wuhan until it does work.

---

You act like DC taxes Americans to make the lives of average people better….

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

User fees on toll roads are one of the few funding mechanisms that take long term road maintenance, repair, and replacement into account.
Tax dollars pay for a great highway, and then have to pay for maintenance on all roads in existence. This is why toll roads are some of the best maintained in the country.

---

Yeah, but there are limited places we can build them. An investment grade Traffic and Revenue report is needed, which is why the overwhelming majority of toll roads so well. There are always a pig or two, but usually it involves not believing the data and pushing for what they think they know better.

To put in perspective, maintenance ratings for an interstate are 85 of 100. Our toll road scores 94ish consistently. Most toll roads will score over 90. Nothing pushes performance like investor financing... You guys should love toll Authorities, we run Govt as close to a business as possible.

---

Definitely want of the stupidest posts on this thread. Surely you're not so stupid to not understand you have effectively unlimited taxing power as a toll authority. You have all the advantages of government without the usual public checks on your ability to tax. The toll authorities are so obscure and distance form the public it is virtually impossible for the public to impact. You take governmental bureaucracy delusion to the next level.

The only reason you score more than 90 is because you have unlimited taxing authority and can lavish largesse favorited contractors to build "luxury roads" neither asked for or assented to by the public. Take the Dallas North Tollway - has probably better snow and ice equipment than Chicago ... sitting there, used once every 10 years.

BTW - noticed your odd silence on my objections to the NTTA.

---

You want Govt to be run like a business with the efficiency and accountability of the private sector? Toll Authorities, Utilities, Ports and Airports all operate with no taxes, accountability to investors and must produce quality products or they will go under.

As for NTTA, they operate at a very high level and meet their legislative responsibilities. I guarantee you there is more accountability and transparency in NTTA's operations than in your business. Contact Moody's, Standard & Poor or any Bonding and ask for a report. Contact NTTA for their annual report or look it up on the web. It is there. I would bet more than your business.

Don't like it, don't take the road. Boycott, use your market strength to send a message. Vote with your dollar. You show the "man" they can't take your dollar. More power to you.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

User fees on toll roads are one of the few funding mechanisms that take long term road maintenance, repair, and replacement into account.
Tax dollars pay for a great highway, and then have to pay for maintenance on all roads in existence. This is why toll roads are some of the best maintained in the country.

---

Yeah, but there are limited places we can build them. An investment grade Traffic and Revenue report is needed, which is why the overwhelming majority of toll roads so well. There are always a pig or two, but usually it involves not believing the data and pushing for what they think they know better.

To put in perspective, maintenance ratings for an interstate are 85 of 100. Our toll road scores 94ish consistently. Most toll roads will score over 90. Nothing pushes performance like investor financing... You guys should love toll Authorities, we run Govt as close to a business as possible.

---

Definitely want of the stupidest posts on this thread. Surely you're not so stupid to not understand you have effectively unlimited taxing power as a toll authority. You have all the advantages of government without the usual public checks on your ability to tax. The toll authorities are so obscure and distance form the public it is virtually impossible for the public to impact. You take governmental bureaucracy delusion to the next level.

The only reason you score more than 90 is because you have unlimited taxing authority and can lavish largesse favorited contractors to build "luxury roads" neither asked for or assented to by the public. Take the Dallas North Tollway - has probably better snow and ice equipment than Chicago ... sitting there, used once every 10 years.

BTW - noticed your odd silence on my objections to the NTTA.

---

You want Govt to be run like a business with the efficiency and accountability of the private sector? Toll Authorities, Utilities, Ports and Airports all operate with no taxes, accountability to investors and must produce quality products or they will go under.

As for NTTA, they operate at a very high level and meet their legislative responsibilities. I guarantee you there is more accountability and transparency in NTTA's operations than in your business. Contact Moody's, Standard & Poor or any Bonding and ask for a report. Contact NTTA for their annual report or look it up on the web. It is there. I would bet more than your business.

Don't like it, don't take the road. Boycott, use your market strength to send a message. Vote with your dollar. You show the "man" they can't take your dollar. More power to you.

---

The fact you cannot answer any of my questions is self-explanatory.

The fact you've revealed yourself as a fascist is self-explanatory.

Congrats on making your living as a moronic bureaucrat robbing people with impunity.

You're both a fool for your tiny brain but a savant for figuring out how to rob your fellow Americans.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

User fees on toll roads are one of the few funding mechanisms that take long term road maintenance, repair, and replacement into account.
Tax dollars pay for a great highway, and then have to pay for maintenance on all roads in existence. This is why toll roads are some of the best maintained in the country.

---

Yeah, but there are limited places we can build them. An investment grade Traffic and Revenue report is needed, which is why the overwhelming majority of toll roads so well. There are always a pig or two, but usually it involves not believing the data and pushing for what they think they know better.

To put in perspective, maintenance ratings for an interstate are 85 of 100. Our toll road scores 94ish consistently. Most toll roads will score over 90. Nothing pushes performance like investor financing... You guys should love toll Authorities, we run Govt as close to a business as possible.

---

Definitely want of the stupidest posts on this thread. Surely you're not so stupid to not understand you have effectively unlimited taxing power as a toll authority. You have all the advantages of government without the usual public checks on your ability to tax. The toll authorities are so obscure and distance form the public it is virtually impossible for the public to impact. You take governmental bureaucracy delusion to the next level.

The only reason you score more than 90 is because you have unlimited taxing authority and can lavish largesse favorited contractors to build "luxury roads" neither asked for or assented to by the public. Take the Dallas North Tollway - has probably better snow and ice equipment than Chicago ... sitting there, used once every 10 years.

BTW - noticed your odd silence on my objections to the NTTA.

---

You want Govt to be run like a business with the efficiency and accountability of the private sector? Toll Authorities, Utilities, Ports and Airports all operate with no taxes, accountability to investors and must produce quality products or they will go under.

As for NTTA, they operate at a very high level and meet their legislative responsibilities. I guarantee you there is more accountability and transparency in NTTA's operations than in your business. Contact Moody's, Standard & Poor or any Bonding and ask for a report. Contact NTTA for their annual report or look it up on the web. It is there. I would bet more than your business.

Don't like it, don't take the road. Boycott, use your market strength to send a message. Vote with your dollar. You show the "man" they can't take your dollar. More power to you.

---

The fact you cannot answer any of my questions is self-explanatory.

The fact you've revealed yourself as a fascist is self-explanatory.

Congrats on making your living as a moronic bureaucrat robbing people with impunity.

You're both a fool for your tiny brain but a savant for figuring out how to rob your fellow Americans.

---

Questions? What questions? You pontificated on something you know little about. Ask a question and I will answer it. Toll roads go back as far as Thomas Jefferson, he commissioned the National Road. Washington agreed with him. Founding Fathers had no issues with tolls.

You don't like user fees, don't use the facility. Seriously, you dont have to use NTTA's facilities. You get what you pay for on a toll road. You get time certainty and a quality road. If time certainty and the cost of your time is worth the toll do it. If not, don't. Not a tough one. You don't want to pay the airport fees, don't fly. Drill a well and get septic if you don't want utility bills. It is your choice.

Sounds like you want to use toll roads and other infrastructure for free. As if it magically appears. Do you know how much it costs to build and maintain one of those roads? Any idea? I guess construction companies should build them for free? Do you know how much right of way cost? Do you know anything about eminent domain? Nah, just want to ***** your little bit of taxes should cover everything....

Jack Bauer said:

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Just wait until new cars are equipped with mileage trackers to tax you on how much you drive....the government always needs new revenue and this seems like the next step

---

...and those mileage trackers will also conveniently serve as location trackers so the government will know who goes where on Sunday morning for what they view as a weekly dose of misinformation.

FLBear5630 said:

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you know how much it costs to build and maintain one of those roads?

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We are well aware that roads aren't provided by the road fairy. Roughly 52 billion was apportioned in 2022...around half of what we sent to Ukraine. Cutting Ukraine out of the budget could have tripled the amount spent on roads in the US.

Realitybites said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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you know how much it costs to build and maintain one of those roads?

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We are well aware that roads aren't provided by the road fairy. Roughly 52 billion was apportioned in 2022...around half of what we sent to Ukraine. Cutting Ukraine out of the budget could have tripled the amount spent on roads in the US.

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And you think that would eliminate toll roads? You know there are States that don't do tolls. Move there.. just like abortion, it is a State thing.